Strolling through Dun Laoghaire, an ice-cream from Teddy’s in hand, we join podcaster and presenter Louise McSharry and her eldest boy Sam, while her second son Ted, stayed home with dad Gordon Spierin for the afternoon. Heading into a funfair, Sam’s laugh echoed as he jumped onto the Ferris Wheel with his mam, her arm wrapped around him as they took a couple of spins around. Pure joy, in the most simplest of forms.
Louise’s own childhood has given her pause for thought. A different world to the one her own kids are experiencing. “By the time I was Sam’s age my biological dad had died, and I had been living with my mom, who was an alcoholic. I then moved in with my aunt and uncle because my mother had surrendered custody of me and my brother…I feel so grateful that I am able to give our boys a different kind of life,” she tells us. “Once they’re safe, happy and healthy, that’s all that matters.”
The greatest wish any parent has for their child. Later on, we sat down with Louise to delve further into how her childhood shaped her, the importance of educating her own children on the realities of life, becoming her own boss with hit podcast, Catch-Up, and her new favourite way to bring calm to a busy life.
Louise, Sam is genuinely your double! You’re so alike, not only in looks but personality too. Did Gordon get a look in at all?!
Sam and I are very alike, it’s crazy! We’re very similar which can present challenges as well because sometimes you might see something in your kids that you maybe don’t like so much about yourself. You stop and think, why did I give this trait to them?! But most of the time, it’s good!
We were delighted he joined us for the shoot, because when it comes to the kids you’re so considerate about what you share. It was actually Sam who wanted to do this with you, right?
Yeah, 100 per cent! It was entirely Sam’s decision. He overheard me telling Gordon about it and said, I want to do that! We had a long talk about it and I explained the ins and outs of the shoot itself, went into our local shop and I showed him the magazine and he said, I want to do it. He was super enthusiastic and had such an amazing day. He thinks it will be part of his life now, doing shoots all the time [laughs].
Consent about being shared publicly, especially in this digital world we’re living in nowadays where everything is documented and posted online, is so important. How do you feel about that sphere as a whole?
I think it’s a tricky space to navigate. For the most part, I don’t judge other people’s choices because when I had Sam, I was really lonely and putting my day-to-day life on the internet meant I was talking and interacting with people. We were sharing experiences, people were giving me advice and I felt like I got a lot of support so I completely understand why people do it, having done it myself. But y’know, for me, it got to a point where people were recognising Sam when I wasn’t with him and I felt like that wasn’t fair so I needed to pull back. I think people do their best to keep their kids safe no matter what.
It’s very different for kids growing up now, access is a huge thing. The world is so vast, and right at their fingertips. Does it worry you, what they can come across?
I worry about that constantly! It is a huge concern and trying to find where the appropriate line is of how much screen time they should have, I agonise over that just like any other parent. Especially with Sam, he loves his video games. He has a really busy mind and I think that helps calm it a little bit. In terms of the internet and what they can access, I worry about that quite a lot too. My one priority with him is having an open conversation on a regular basis about the internet and how not everything you see online is true or appropriate for kids. I’m not going to be able to control everything he sees, so it’s about educating him to be a smart media consumer so that he doesn’t just take everything at face value. Also, most importantly, that he feels safe to come talk to me if he does find something scary or uncomfortable.
Education is so important. And you don’t shelter the boys; you show them the world and discuss the realities of life and important topics even at a young age. How have you found that aspect of parenthood?
Honestly, I think that’s the bit I’m good at because there are so many things I’m not [laughs]. Communication is my greatest skill and I’ve never found it difficult to talk to them about hard things. I don’t ever want there to be a situation in our house where they ask a question and it’s not answered, and sometimes that means you are having big conversations. I try really hard to educate myself via other people’s expertise on the best ways to talk to kids about difficult things.
What has motherhood taught you about yourself?
That I have a lot more patience than I ever thought I could have! It has taught me that I am capable of being selfless whereas I maybe would have felt a bit more selfish before; that I am capable of making sacrifices for the good of my children. Also that I don’t need as much sleep as I thought I needed.
Did welcoming your boys make you reflect on your own childhood?
I think about it all the time. My childhood was so wildly different to theirs. My family background is not traditional, I experienced a lot of trauma. By the time I was Sam’s age, my biological dad had died, and I had been living with my mom, who was an alcoholic. I moved in with my aunt and uncle because my mother had surrendered custody of me and my brother so like just from that perspective our childhoods were completely different and I feel so grateful I am able to give them a different kind of life. When you’ve had a lot of trauma in your own childhood, you really want to give your kids stability. It can also make you really hard on yourself because at the end of the day things don’t always go perfectly smoothly. Life happens and perfect plans are thrown up in the air so I try really hard to forgive myself when that occurs. It definitely does make me think about my own childhood and I think my kids are pretty lucky.
It must have been emotionally hard on you growing up.
I was a six-year-old adult. I was very clued in to what was going on because it was just me, my mom and my brother in the house and so when she was a mess, it was up to me to keep the show on the road. I remember feeling like why is my life not like everyone else’s? It really hits home when you have your own kids in front of you, you realise just how small you were, and how unfair it was that you were not given the kind of childhood you deserved. That can be really very confronting, but I have done a lot of therapy and that helped.
Did you find that things took a turn when you moved in with your aunt and uncle?
Obviously it was safer and more consistent than my previous situation but it had its own challenges. They were 25 and 26, incredibly young, and they did their absolute best but they didn’t know what they were doing. They were really strict on us because they thought it was the best thing for us, it came from a good place but it was a big change from the situation I had been in. And I missed my mom so much, every day, all the time, for years. I really, really missed her and that was incredibly difficult. I am obviously profoundly grateful to our parents for caring for us, but it wasn’t smooth sailing. Any kid who’s taken away from their family situation, even if that situation is full of danger and lacks stability, you still really mourn it and carry it with you forever.
What did you learn most from your parents over the years?
I was raised with a very strong sense of justice and fairness and my dad has always been quite engaged in terms of current events so I definitely learned that from him. He would have strong feelings about what’s right and wrong and I have that as well. If people are being treated unfairly, I find it really difficult to let go of that. One of the things I come back to all the time is about how people are treated in this country, kids who don’t come from traditional family backgrounds. We are really letting kids like me down, kids who find themselves in these situations through no fault of their own where their parents can’t care for them. I find that difficult to let go of.
What do you think can be done to help kids in those situations?
I would like to see an investment in TUSLA [child and family agency]. There are good people in there but there isn’t enough resources. The thing is, if you don’t help kids who come from a place of trauma, where they’re not being looked after by their parents, those kids will struggle and probably in many cases, end up being the kind of people who get written off for the rest of their lives and maybe get involved in anti-social behaviour. They look for love in the wrongs places, look for family support in the wrong place and they just don’t have a chance from the get-go if you don’t give them the right structure and consistency. If we just properly took care of kids then our whole society would benefit for the rest of its existence. You have these people who will complain about anti-social behaviour and teenagers who are being violent, but how are you treating them? You have to give kids optimism and hope for a solid future or why would they try, there is no point.
You pour all this life experience into your career and your podcast; does it help you when you are talking to your guests?
It is cathartic to talk about these things, writing my column for the Indo is part of that as well. The beauty of podcasting is that you find your people, find your community. It doesn’t have to be millions of people. In radio you have to have a lot of people listening to you or you will lose your job, that’s just how it goes. But I can’t lose this job. The only reason I would stop would be if it wasn’t financially viable and I needed to do something else.
Do you enjoy the freedom that comes with being your own boss?
It’s great with the kids. If I need to finish early for anything, if I need to have a day off, I can, but the thing about being self-employed is that no one else is going to do the work for you. You can do it at whatever time you want, but it still has to be done. I have a pretty set in stone schedule. I don’t necessarily enjoy as much freedom as I would like to. Sometimes I think it’d be nice to go away on holiday for three weeks, but that can’t happen.
Would you like to get back into the radio world or does this satisfy that broadcasting itch?
It definitely satisfies it! I would never say never but to be honest, I’d be kind of closed off for lots of different reasons. I think it’s quite a toxic industry. It is a difficult time for the industry, it’s trying to find its feet. I have RTÉ Radio being advertised on my podcast these days, it’s funny. It isn’t that I’m bigger than RTÉ radio programmes – they’re way bigger than me in terms of listenership – but I just think it is interesting that there is so much value in podcasts, that radio is going there to find an audience now feels like I am in the future and radio isn’t sure where it’s going, so I wouldn’t be rushing back. One thing I really miss about radio, aside from working with really cool people, is the music because you can’t really do music on podcast.
Is music how you switch off?
I don’t know if I do switch off! I’m addicted to my phone, like wildly, intensely addicted and I’m trying to cut down because even if I’m watching a film, I have it in my hands. So, I bought myself some really nice markers and colouring books and if I have downtime, instead of being on my phone, watching TV or whatever, I’m colouring. I’m more tuned into what’s happening because I’m listening properly. It’s really helping.
You were diagnosed with ADHD recently. We spoke with Triona McCarthy a few issues back, who was diagnosed almost 15 years ago. She said she was almost embarrassed, it was a different time and people didn’t speak out about these things. There’s much less of a stigma attached now. Can you tell us about your experience?
I’ve had the same conversation with Triona. She almost said it to me in hushed tones initially, so I think it’s great that people feel more comfortable to be open and talking does help. I’m always so enthusiastic when it comes to discussing things that are a bit uncomfortable because I feel like that’s the most valuable talking you can do. When you hear someone else talking about something you relate to, it is so validating and gives you such comfort. I wouldn’t have gotten my ADHD diagnosis if other people hadn’t talked about theirs and that is the truth.
How are you finding things now?
I’m getting there. Being diagnosed helps you understand how you respond to things and how you operate. I’d have previously said to myself, why can’t you just do it this way? But instead of agonising and giving myself grief over it, I’ve learned how to think differently. It’s a way of working with yourself, instead of against yourself.
